Post by olyman on Jan 23, 2020 17:58:07 GMT
wrenchy
Hi all,
I have a single Tillotson "HR 143A 2" with short stack pump for a '73 Elan 250SS, type 249.
I need the part number and any cross reference numbers for the nozzle check valve so I can shop for new parts. Please take note that it is NOT threaded into the carb body. It is pressed in. 0.25" dia.
My research has me guessing at part # 363-024. Not sure.
Also, # for the hi speed mixture orifice. This one has an mixture screw over it, though the nomenclature states that it is fixed. I think it should be .041"
By the way, is it common for these carbs to have 2 of the pump mounting bolt holes machined into the choke and throttle areas of the carb? Shall I go ahead and plug them with JBWeld?
Thank you for your help.
dooitvintage
check nozzle is 404 0363 00. The fixed jet size is 41. Steve
I got it now. I looked at one of mine. No I wouldn't JB anything. It's from the factory that way. When you put it together the gaskets will do their job. Check out DoubleT's thread on overhaul/assembly and Lshobie's video on youtube.
wrenchy
Yes, that's the hole. My real question is the non-threaded check valve.
My search turns up # 016624 which crosses over to Bombardier 404 0363. Is that a correct number? See link to photo. Who might have those?
[/url]DSC00039 by Mr Wrenchy, on Flickr[/img]
dooitvintage
kinda scarce. I got mine from Dave(775) but don't know if he has any left. the same one fits the 143A and 137A. PM him here or his store is at this link. He doesn't list all the parts he has, WAY too many. just email your request he's great to deal with.
www.vintageskidoopart.com/index.html
when you change them out, be gentle. they push through to the carb throat with light tapping with a punch or even a deep socket that fits the outer shoulder diameter of the valve. I cut off a plastic ball point pen that fit over it and in the hole so as not to damage it or the hole. remember how far in the old one was. I like to take pics of stuff with my phone so I can see what it looked like for re-assembly. then delete. Steve
hermit
I'd like to see the nozzle from another view. Appears much like an HD, not that would be any more plentiful. Never saw one of these I recall.
dooitvintage
its my understanding they were only used on the 137A's on the TnT and the 73 Elan SS w/143A'S. Interesting a single 143A on a 73 SS. Is a single 041 high speed fixed jet enough? They were intended as a dual setup. The 73 294 TnT dual 137A setup used a 45 fixed.
775
Thanks Marc (and Steve).
Marc, your check nozzle will mail out on Friday.
My last one.
Dave
moxymech1
nice thread,
i was asking about these a couple of years ago and had no luck, is there actually a ball in there?
moxy
dooitvintage
no it appears to be a little flap of some sort. I've got an old one I was thinking of pulling it out to see what exactly it was. If I do I'll throw a pic up of it.
The thing that stinks is rare parts like this aren't being reproduced. When they're gone......
hermit
It's a piece of fiber.
hermit
I have another style nozzle with this fiber flap in there. I think they were trying something other than the ball. I think if you soak it and can blow back and forth having it close off in the back direction it might be ok until you find an nos one.
dooitvintage
and from what info I've come across you definitely want to remove it prior to soaking in carb cleaner
moxymech1
what it looks like from under the welsh plug,
wrenchy
That is the check valve that I have.
If I recall reading correctly, there was a recall to convert them to single carb. Not sure why. Perhaps there were too many problems keeping them in sync, or not enough impulse for the pumps.
I hope that flat disk check valve isn't the reason they moved on to the ball check valves!
dooitvintage
engineers are always working on a better way, but mine seem to work fine. not sure how the bore compares to the threaded Til bodies but I have a bad body I may try to thread. assuming the threaded ball nozzle functions the same and it should
wrenchy
I got it running again. Had to open the low speed screw 2 1/4 turns to get it to start and idle. I took it snowmo-camping in the Adirondacks at zero degrees after my '09 Renegade broke down. Ran good, but it struggles uphill, carrying me and my pack at 225 lbs.
What fun, after enjoying an SC-5 suspension for 3 1/2 years.
moxymech1
This is a good thread, has anyone found replacements for these check valves?
please make sticky
hermit
I don't think so. But I would be willing to bet an hl would work
skidooguy1951
HI just received in the mail 2.. 4040363 nozzle check valve for HR137a does have a ball check valve with a flap over it with 4 brass fingers to hold everything in place.As for the length it is .308 in length compared to hd valve at .445 long
Flap valve looks to be made of a woven fiberglass material.
If you need more info I will not be installing them for a couple days
moxymech1
there is more to it than the fiberglass screen
Gastons Pics
HR is the short one
HD with check ball, the mark on the shaft might be where to cut to fit HR/HL
HD on the left, HR on the right
dooitvintage
took this one out of the other 137A. It almost looks like it has shrunk a little in size. And if it has even a slight curvature to it how will that affect it's performance?
That question for DoubleT(or anyone, he is kind of a resident expert on these Til's). Or does it perform a not so critical role?
hermit
I'm hesitant to comment on anything I don't know 100% about. I have not had these on any sleds, but have talked with some who do. I have a couple that are for a different carb though. One you can suck back and forth and get no resistance. I believe it's faulty. The other is just like a standard nozzle wher you can't suck in one direction but can the other. This is how they are supposed to be. If you can't get air one way but can the other with good pressure, I think they are ok even with one smaller. As long as it blocks the passage. I'd send you these nozzles and you could extract the fiber wafers for free if you wanted. Not sure they are the same size and thickness but I imagine they'd have to be. You would then have to carefully pry the prongs on yours open and replace them. But again, if yours seal I would leave them. Hope this helps.
dooitvintage
thx Hermit. I'm trying to decide, based on extremely limited availability/non-existence of new stock, whether I should try to re-use the check valve I removed from one of the 137a's I'm rebuilding for a 73 294 motor. I could scrap the 137's but I like the 143's so much I wanted to do it again! I guess it's as simple as that: if air passes one way and doesn't the other then it should be ok. If it doesn't COMPLETELY block in the other direction, what effect will it have on function/performance? Anything noticeable?
hermit
Well I can't say exactly. But to the best of my knowledge you want it to completely shut off flow.
sledrat
Is it mikuni time yet Just joking but ya
That's what I would doo
very interesting read though best of luck with that flapper nozzles
I never seen them before and they don't look like they would be to
Reliable in function to me
But then again I do not know anything about em
Hi all,
I have a single Tillotson "HR 143A 2" with short stack pump for a '73 Elan 250SS, type 249.
I need the part number and any cross reference numbers for the nozzle check valve so I can shop for new parts. Please take note that it is NOT threaded into the carb body. It is pressed in. 0.25" dia.
My research has me guessing at part # 363-024. Not sure.
Also, # for the hi speed mixture orifice. This one has an mixture screw over it, though the nomenclature states that it is fixed. I think it should be .041"
By the way, is it common for these carbs to have 2 of the pump mounting bolt holes machined into the choke and throttle areas of the carb? Shall I go ahead and plug them with JBWeld?
Thank you for your help.
dooitvintage
check nozzle is 404 0363 00. The fixed jet size is 41. Steve
I got it now. I looked at one of mine. No I wouldn't JB anything. It's from the factory that way. When you put it together the gaskets will do their job. Check out DoubleT's thread on overhaul/assembly and Lshobie's video on youtube.
wrenchy
Yes, that's the hole. My real question is the non-threaded check valve.
My search turns up # 016624 which crosses over to Bombardier 404 0363. Is that a correct number? See link to photo. Who might have those?
[/url]DSC00039 by Mr Wrenchy, on Flickr[/img]
dooitvintage
kinda scarce. I got mine from Dave(775) but don't know if he has any left. the same one fits the 143A and 137A. PM him here or his store is at this link. He doesn't list all the parts he has, WAY too many. just email your request he's great to deal with.
www.vintageskidoopart.com/index.html
when you change them out, be gentle. they push through to the carb throat with light tapping with a punch or even a deep socket that fits the outer shoulder diameter of the valve. I cut off a plastic ball point pen that fit over it and in the hole so as not to damage it or the hole. remember how far in the old one was. I like to take pics of stuff with my phone so I can see what it looked like for re-assembly. then delete. Steve
hermit
I'd like to see the nozzle from another view. Appears much like an HD, not that would be any more plentiful. Never saw one of these I recall.
dooitvintage
its my understanding they were only used on the 137A's on the TnT and the 73 Elan SS w/143A'S. Interesting a single 143A on a 73 SS. Is a single 041 high speed fixed jet enough? They were intended as a dual setup. The 73 294 TnT dual 137A setup used a 45 fixed.
775
Thanks Marc (and Steve).
Marc, your check nozzle will mail out on Friday.
My last one.
Dave
moxymech1
nice thread,
i was asking about these a couple of years ago and had no luck, is there actually a ball in there?
moxy
dooitvintage
no it appears to be a little flap of some sort. I've got an old one I was thinking of pulling it out to see what exactly it was. If I do I'll throw a pic up of it.
The thing that stinks is rare parts like this aren't being reproduced. When they're gone......
hermit
It's a piece of fiber.
hermit
I have another style nozzle with this fiber flap in there. I think they were trying something other than the ball. I think if you soak it and can blow back and forth having it close off in the back direction it might be ok until you find an nos one.
dooitvintage
and from what info I've come across you definitely want to remove it prior to soaking in carb cleaner
moxymech1
what it looks like from under the welsh plug,
wrenchy
That is the check valve that I have.
If I recall reading correctly, there was a recall to convert them to single carb. Not sure why. Perhaps there were too many problems keeping them in sync, or not enough impulse for the pumps.
I hope that flat disk check valve isn't the reason they moved on to the ball check valves!
dooitvintage
engineers are always working on a better way, but mine seem to work fine. not sure how the bore compares to the threaded Til bodies but I have a bad body I may try to thread. assuming the threaded ball nozzle functions the same and it should
wrenchy
I got it running again. Had to open the low speed screw 2 1/4 turns to get it to start and idle. I took it snowmo-camping in the Adirondacks at zero degrees after my '09 Renegade broke down. Ran good, but it struggles uphill, carrying me and my pack at 225 lbs.
What fun, after enjoying an SC-5 suspension for 3 1/2 years.
moxymech1
This is a good thread, has anyone found replacements for these check valves?
please make sticky
hermit
I don't think so. But I would be willing to bet an hl would work
skidooguy1951
HI just received in the mail 2.. 4040363 nozzle check valve for HR137a does have a ball check valve with a flap over it with 4 brass fingers to hold everything in place.As for the length it is .308 in length compared to hd valve at .445 long
Flap valve looks to be made of a woven fiberglass material.
If you need more info I will not be installing them for a couple days
moxymech1
there is more to it than the fiberglass screen
Gastons Pics
HR is the short one
HD with check ball, the mark on the shaft might be where to cut to fit HR/HL
HD on the left, HR on the right
dooitvintage
took this one out of the other 137A. It almost looks like it has shrunk a little in size. And if it has even a slight curvature to it how will that affect it's performance?
That question for DoubleT(or anyone, he is kind of a resident expert on these Til's). Or does it perform a not so critical role?
hermit
I'm hesitant to comment on anything I don't know 100% about. I have not had these on any sleds, but have talked with some who do. I have a couple that are for a different carb though. One you can suck back and forth and get no resistance. I believe it's faulty. The other is just like a standard nozzle wher you can't suck in one direction but can the other. This is how they are supposed to be. If you can't get air one way but can the other with good pressure, I think they are ok even with one smaller. As long as it blocks the passage. I'd send you these nozzles and you could extract the fiber wafers for free if you wanted. Not sure they are the same size and thickness but I imagine they'd have to be. You would then have to carefully pry the prongs on yours open and replace them. But again, if yours seal I would leave them. Hope this helps.
dooitvintage
thx Hermit. I'm trying to decide, based on extremely limited availability/non-existence of new stock, whether I should try to re-use the check valve I removed from one of the 137a's I'm rebuilding for a 73 294 motor. I could scrap the 137's but I like the 143's so much I wanted to do it again! I guess it's as simple as that: if air passes one way and doesn't the other then it should be ok. If it doesn't COMPLETELY block in the other direction, what effect will it have on function/performance? Anything noticeable?
hermit
Well I can't say exactly. But to the best of my knowledge you want it to completely shut off flow.
sledrat
Is it mikuni time yet Just joking but ya
That's what I would doo
very interesting read though best of luck with that flapper nozzles
I never seen them before and they don't look like they would be to
Reliable in function to me
But then again I do not know anything about em