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Post by Doo640ER on Oct 31, 2021 15:01:25 GMT
Well, I wasn't searching for yet another project, but this one followed me home last week. 77 Olympique 440. Couldn't resist for $110. I haven't looked it over very thoroughly, it pops over but doesn't stay running. The original Mikuni is missing for whatever reason and replaced with a Tilly. I haven't checked what number is on the carb. Anyone have a spare VM-32 they would be willing to let go?
Dig those headlights! LOL. Otherwise looks pretty solid and needs a really good cleaning. It was pouring rain when I was looking at it so made a snap decision to get it without really looking it over. Would like to get it into the garage to begin the investigation. Interesting skis on it also, Arctic Cat??
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Post by joeolympique on Oct 31, 2021 19:35:58 GMT
"Dig those headlights!"... Got a touch of Austin Healey Sprite going on there. The skis... They actually look like the correct skis but with transplanted grab handles. Can't really tell from the photos but were they welded on after birth?. I had a 78 340. Like yourself, paid a hundred bucks for it. I liked it. It was a fun easy ride. I know the Olympique pretty much lost its identity once the bubble nose was retired and these were disparaged by many, myself included back in the day. But I really liked it as a, you know, old guy. Kind of wish I'd kept it. Great guest sled, especially for a novice. I ended up having to rehab the suspension. Limiter strap was thread bare, so check that out. A couple of hyfax sliders were worn out. Rear axle bearings were gritty and adjuster bolts were NG. Seat was good but base was rotted so I replaced that. Gave it sympathy cosmetics and was quite satisfied. Had one faulty coil. Once I ID'd that the engine ran great.  |
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Post by dando127 on Oct 31, 2021 23:25:56 GMT
Nice work saving another one. It is in good hands for sure!!!! Can't go wrong for $110...
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Post by Doo640ER on Nov 13, 2021 12:49:43 GMT
Thanks for the vote of confidence Dando. I have yet to start messing with this sled but the forecast for a little snow in my area is inspiring!
joeoly, if you paid $100 for that sled in your picture, then I think I got majorly ripped-off, Ha Ha That is/was super nice! I think I'll try to get it into the garage this weekend and see what I'm working with. I think I'm going to have a hard time location a VM-32 so I'm considering trying a VM-34. I would imagine a 440 could handle a 34? Does anyone have any carb specs (Jets, needle, etc.) that might work with a 34 on this sled? I see these are the specs for the 78 Oly 440. Any differences in the motors between the 77 and 78 that would make this a bad set-up? Best I can tell is that they are both the Type 440.
1977 Type 440 Specs
VM 32-113
Main jet 290
Needle 6F9-4
Needle jet 159 Q-2
Cutaway 3.5
Pilot jet 35
Air Screw 1.5 turns
1978 Specs:
VM 34-165
Main jet 320
Needle 6F9-3
Needle jet 159 P-6
Cutaway 3.0
Pilot jet 35
Air Screw 2 turns
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Post by bones on Nov 14, 2021 15:34:41 GMT
Doo640ER, are you the goalie on the local hockey team ? If not you should be, making a save like that. Possibly a little mix up in years in this thread, there was a 76 Oly 440 and a 77 Oly 440, no oly 440 in 78. Doo640, the specs you list for a 78 Oly 440 are actually the specs for a Everest 440. The 76 oly 440 was engine type 434, basically same engine as the 72 Nordic and 73/74 Oly. The 77 oly 440 was type 440, same engine as the 74-78 TnT and 74-79 Everest. FYI when looking at sled from front, you will note the vent to left of head light is raised, the 77 - 440 Oly is the only one like that, this is due to needing the room for the larger fan on the type 440 engine. Your carb looks very TnT/Everest to me ?? Almost wonder if the original engine failed and they dropped in a TnT/Everest engine c/w carb ?? Don`t know if the specs for the Everest 34mm carb would work very well ?? The Oly is a can muffler and the everest is a tuned muffler. Ski-Doo used very few 32 mm and 36 mm carbs, they seemed to jump over them sizes, other than some alpines I think the only Doo with a 32mm is the 77 oly 440. But.....There is several other brands that did use 32 mm, so you could assemble one if you wish ?? Maybe the Tilly HD on there will work OK  ?? I also agree with the comments above, great little scooter. The 75-79 Oly seem to have zero interest as a collectable but I think they are a nice little sled. Bones |
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Post by Doo640ER on Nov 14, 2021 16:51:42 GMT
Hey Bones, thanks for the input. Oops my bad. I was comparing the service manuals for 1977 vs. 1978 and I noticed that both years used the Type 440, I just didn't notice that I was comparing a 77 Oly Type 440 vs. a 78 Everest Type 440. So, hmmm, I have a spare VM-34 that came on my 2nd Citation 4500, but the internals are not correct for the 4500, so it's kind of a Franken-Kuni. I might throw it on to see what happens. I think its set up kinda on the fat side. I just want to hear this thing run.
I will first check the Tilly that's on there now as I'm not even sure which one it is. You may be correct in that this may be an transplanted motor so checking the Tilly model can possibly confirm this theory.
I gotta ask though.....are you feeling OK today? To hear Bones say something as outrageous as "Maybe the Tilly HD on there will work OK?".....I can only think your off your game a little, HAHA. You typically run the local annual Tilly Toss contest don't you?  . Just havin some fun....
Thanks again the input as always!
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Post by Doo640ER on Nov 14, 2021 22:18:24 GMT
The Alberta clipper snow was falling today here so the inspiration to wrench on this old girl was flowing. First thing was to get it somewhat cleaned-up and off the trailer. Gave her a little scrub and that definitely added motivation to see what I'm dealing with.
When I went and picked this sled up I knew it was in non-running condition, however when looking it over at that time it did pop-over. The first thing I did once I got it into the garage was check compression. Mag side is 148psi and PTO is 154psi, assuming my gauge is correct. Good thing is they are quite similar, like ~ 4.0% difference. Next thing I did was check to see what carb is on there. It is an HD 138A. It has a pulse line and according to the 77 service manual, this was not used on the Type 440 motor. The feel of the throttle cable also makes me believe this carb is not for this motor. It only takes 1/2 throttle to open the butterfly all the way. Goofy set-up, this Tilly needs to go! The PO did say he bought this carb on Ebay last year, but said "Its the same one that was on there". He did not say where the original carb was. For $110 I didn't want to ask too many questions, LOL
If I switch to a Mikuni, I'm assuming I need to locate the proper carb adaptor/boot.
I checked for spark and it looked like the PTO side had good spark, but the Mag side was weak. Feeling bold, I though I'd give her a pull to see what happens. She fired, a little. I did try to get it to run on spray, but no go. Pulled, pulled, pulled, checked the plugs and they are wet now. They started off dry, but I think that was due to no fuel at the carb due to the junk screw-on fuel filter that I needed to tighten-up due to the gasket drying out. Many pulls and nothing. Some of the wiring has been messed with so I unplugged the main harness at the motor,...no change. I grabbed my Ohm meter to check the plug wires, caps and external coils. I also snipped the end of the mag side wire at the cap to make sure it has good connection. I did not snip the end where it goes into the coil since I will need to remove the carb to doo this. When I checked the Ohms on the mag side external coil, I was getting results about 13,000 Ohms!! As a reality check, I did the same on my 81 Citation and I'm getting results in the area of 6200 Ohms. What in the heck would cause this abnormally high reading of 13,000 ohms? I also I see that this sled has had the plug wires and caps replaced, and I think the caps are 5K resistor versions which is not optimum.
So that's where I'm at with this Oly. If you have any input please chime in.
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Post by bones on Nov 15, 2021 0:34:55 GMT
HD138A is the carb for a 75 TnT 440 & Everest. Take the carb intake boot off the TnT F/A and stick it on there  They are the same. Carb OD on engine side is same for 30, 32 & 34 Bones |
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Post by Doo640ER on Nov 20, 2021 12:41:54 GMT
Bones, Will the aftermarket flange with # VM34-200 work? Best I can tell, the OEM part number is 404-1001-00?? I don't have a parts manual. I'm shopping this morning for a carb flange and axle seals. Since when do these seals cost $US 8.00 each? I'm getting old, I remember you could get em for $2.00, LOL. Where are guys buying these seals these days to get the best deal? 03-106 isn't available from Dennis Kirk, MFG Supply nor Parts Unlimited. I see Al's has them, and a few places on Ebay. I've gotten them from Goose in the past, but I'm trying to bundle the shipping with a carb flange.
Also, does anyone know what part number / throttle cable I need to put a Mikuni on this sled? Is it the same as the 77 TNT and Everest?
Thanks
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Post by dando127 on Nov 20, 2021 16:10:24 GMT
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Post by bones on Nov 21, 2021 16:22:26 GMT
Yes doo640 the 34-200 should work just fine for you. Throttle cable....I might well not know all the different cable styles but from what I have found for the mid/late 70s Ski Doo. The OEM set up for the Mikuni on Ski Doo is the cable is a push in fit to top of carb ( like your TnT F/A. To me this is kinda poor set up. In order to get a cable that fits the throttle block on the handle bar of Ski Doo you will have to get the push into carb style. For example the universal cables have the screw onto carb set up which I like better but the thing don`t fit the throttle block correctly. If you get a cable for a 77/78 Olympic will be perfect or one from a Everest is also perfectly fine. If you find a carb that has provision to screw the cable into carb top you can drill it out and use the push in cable end, then you need to try to seal it with "O" ring or |
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Post by olyman on Nov 23, 2021 17:10:04 GMT
I'm a little late to the party here, but totally dig the bigblock oly! Good score Mark!
Imo that tilly on there would likely be easier to get running than finding a mikuni unless you already had one. There's hardly anything to those if it's the one I'm thinking that only has the main metering diaphragm in it.
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Post by Doo640ER on Nov 25, 2021 13:02:37 GMT
Happy Thanksgiving all!
Sorry, been pretty busy lately. Thanks to all you Doodz for the input. I made some progress. I dug into the no spark problem a few days ago. I removed the mag side external coil and it looked like a fairly new (aftermarket) one actually with no rust on it. I could not get a good Ohm reading so I pulled on the plug wire and it popped-off quite easily. The mounting hole with the screw in it was full of rusty water and the screw was really rusty. A by-product of sitting outside for a couple years uncovered and a poor installation to boot. I tried to clean it up best I could and screwed the plug wire back on and I couldn't get it to tighten. Gave a little yank on the wire and the terminal popped right off. Into the electronics recycle bucket it went. I pulled a spare coil off my wall and checked the Ohms and it was reading about 7500. I hooked that puppy up and now I had spark on both sides. I should note that the plug caps are aftermarket and they are 5 Kohm resistance caps. They need to go so I ordered a bunch of the NGK non-resistor caps. Every old sled I pick up seems to have the wrong style caps on them. So, anyway, the caps showed up yesterday so I'll throw those on today.
So after I got good spark on both sides, I figured I'd see if I could get her to run. She popped over and I was able to get it to run while squirting premix into the tilly. I could not get it to rev-up and it would stall if I quit squirting. The gas in the tank seemed surprising good. Looked good and smelled good also, but I drained the tank anyway to be on the safe side, maybe it was actually bad and that contributed to the poor running. Replaced the in-tank pickup fuel line while I was at it. I'm going to pull the tilly off today and give it the proper treatment. I ordered the proper Mikuni carb flange also since I really want to get a Mikuni on this motor.
I think that's about it for now, sorry, I ramble
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??
. Just havin some fun....
They are the same. Carb OD on engine side is same for 30, 32 & 34